Question on Thunder

• Justified wrote on 2010-04-20 21:53
  Thunder is overrated by a lot of people. The Hobgoblins are extremely weak (some even die with a single Icebolt) so I can see how Magnum would be much more efficient than Thunder given the person has enough ranks and Dex. Chaincast Lightningbolt and mid-to-high rank Ice Spear are also feasible, but overlooked because of Thunder fandom.
  However, both Thunder and Magnum get the job done. It's way easier to be a Mage (whose damage relies only on the rank of the skill being used) than it is to rank up all the different Range skills and Life skills to go with it - the only obstacle is cost, which doesn't pose a real problem to veteran players.
  
  Personally, I prefer Ballooning over rafting either way. It's much easier and I can get over 51 stars in under 5 minutes just spamming Chaincast Firebolt, and get 18k per turn in without the trouble of selling materials. Firebolt is way less AP than Thunder/Range too.
• EndlessDreams wrote on 2010-04-20 23:31

  Quote from Joyjason;12126:

  I also don't spend money on MP potions either =P
  I just get mana herbs (i get 20 or 30 if i'm lucky) each run, and I use that to make my own potions. I use around 7-8 MP100s, so with one run dedicated to mana herbs, I can get 3 runs dedicated to iron ingots (30 or 40 each run)
  
  Fumy, your argument that Magnum is better in ANY sense is flawed from the beginning. It really seems like you never experienced the power of Thunder in rafting yourself. Please rank Thunder to r6, raft a few times with mana potions, then come back to this thread to clearly state that Magnum Shot is better than Thunder

  
  
  Well yea, if you go rafting for Iron Ingots, you will find yourself having too much mana herbs than you can actually cast Thunder. Also, one of the thing that is good about Thunder is the long reach, and ability to use the time floating around to increase more targets.
  
  Ice Spear and Bolts, while fast, have very short reach. You will have problems in some areas if you aren't purposely rolling your raft toward the monster's direction. I know with Thunder you can often reach either sides of the shores, and have a small frame to throw your Thunder, which can often chain to reach the monsters behind it. Also, if you are just running around with Thunder, monsters can't hit you. I can do rafting many times without getting hit.
  
  The problem with Ice Spear is that it also lacks control as well. You will always know how many targets your Thunder will hit, but never Ice Spear due to its annoying spread.
  
  I used to Magnum/AR my way through the rafting. While it is easy to get a lot of stars like that when you by yourself. It is harder to do it when you have multiple people on you that don't really attack. Also, it is pretty inconsistent due to occasional misses as well. However, Elf Range/magnum would probably fair better.
• Justified wrote on 2010-04-21 00:56

  Quote from EndlessDreams;12497:

  Ice Spear and Bolts, while fast, have very short reach. You will have problems in some areas if you aren't purposely rolling your raft toward the monster's direction. I know with Thunder you can often reach either sides of the shores, and have a small frame to throw your Thunder, which can often chain to reach the monsters behind it. Also, if you are just running around with Thunder, monsters can't hit you. I can do rafting many times without getting hit.
  
  The problem with Ice Spear is that it also lacks control as well. You will always know how many targets your Thunder will hit, but never Ice Spear due to its annoying spread.

  
  
  The range is the flaw, but if you're good at steering or have a partner (partner, not group) then it could be better in terms of cost -> profit.
  And I mentioned higher rank Ice Spear. Even if you fail at aiming and only hit one mob on the very extreme, you're still guaranteed a lot of kills with one charge. A single charge non-crit for me chained for an additional two explosions, getting me about 7 kills on that wave. If you use one charge Thunder, you risk the mobs surviving in deadly, and also have to cast more than once per wave. While the Thunder range is a very important, it's the only benefit over bolt magic and Ice Spear.
  But Rank 4 Fireball crystals from Hard Shadow Missions is just win, it beats everything else if you take the time out to gather/buy them.
• Yogurticecream wrote on 2010-04-21 01:46
  You know what, looking at people using thunder on rafting and all these talk about Thunder is making me wanting to learn thunder before completing my combat skills :T_T:
  
  Now I have to think about what to do @_@
  
  Get ready for a new set of questions on a new thread once I have figured out everything.
• EndlessDreams wrote on 2010-04-21 02:56

  Quote from Justified;12887:

  A single charge non-crit for me chained for an additional two explosions, getting me about 7 kills on that wave. If you use one charge Thunder, you risk the mobs surviving in deadly, and also have to cast more than once per wave. While the Thunder range is a very important, it's the only benefit over bolt magic and Ice Spear.
  

  
  
  I don't need to steer to get the amount of stars I need with Thunder. The direct money from rafting isn't really profit at all. There are only a few things that are worth a lot of rafting, and is guaranteed. Iron Ingots, Mana Herbs, and maybe Braids.
  
  You highlighted the second major problem of Ice Spear. If you want a controlled amount of stars, Ice Spear properties makes it very hard to control. Thunder don't spread, and it has a set number of targets. The initial shock combined with the Thunderfall, I never have a problem with deadly at all.
  Second charge (or third charge), usually done when you are just waiting to get there, will definitely stop stuff from being deadly.
  
  If you want unlimited amount of stars, then Ice Spear is probably the better way. However, the rewards for 30+ stars aren't very good.
• Nyo wrote on 2010-04-21 02:59

  Quote from Yogurticecream;9203:

  How much mana do you have?

  A little over 300. I use a mana reduction wand and outfit though, so it feels like I have 500mp.
  

  Quote from Yogurticecream;13180:

  You know what, looking at people using thunder on rafting and all these talk about Thunder is making me wanting to learn thunder before completing my combat skills :T_T:
  
  Now I have to think about what to do @_@
  
  Get ready for a new set of questions on a new thread once I have figured out everything.

  I wouldn't get thunder just for rafting. Well, unless you really like to raft. Thunder eats up a lot of AP and raises a lot of CP. I don't really use thunder nowadays when the shadow missions I usually do only spawn sparse mobs with some of them having lightning resistance.
• sakraycore wrote on 2010-04-21 06:00
  So uh how much exploration exp do u get per stop, those who have r5+ thunder?
• Trigger wrote on 2010-04-21 06:22
  Since the demise of the 2x spawns on ch6-7, I'm able to get max exploration EXP on both the first and third stops, because it is now literally impossible to do so at the second stop. This is using Thunder Rank 1, of course.
  
  Now, if I were using Shining Laser, I'd be able to hit those monsters far behind me as they respawn, due to the laser's tremendous range, and I'd get max EXP. But I don't have my laser.
• Yogurticecream wrote on 2010-04-21 06:27

  Quote from Trigger;13618:

  Since the demise of the 2x spawns on ch6-7, I'm able to get max exploration EXP on both the first and third stops, because it is now literally impossible to do so at the second stop. This is using Thunder Rank 1, of course.
  
  Now, if I were using Shining Laser, I'd be able to hit those monsters far behind me as they respawn, due to the laser's tremendous range, and I'd get max EXP. But I don't have my laser.

  
  I'm thinking about OC fireball, which has since been patched (or maybe resurrected in another form).
  
  I don't do much and when I go rafting with another Thunder mage, I can get to exploration 8 at the very first stop. About 2 entire rafting trips and my exploration should be about 13-14. This is when the cap quests are removed.
• Kyouriharu wrote on 2010-04-21 06:28
  As an elf, I use Ice Spear more while rafting because 20 MP a charge is really a joke. More bang for your buck.
• Justified wrote on 2010-04-21 06:58

  Quote from EndlessDreams;13406:

  You highlighted the second major problem of Ice Spear. If you want a controlled amount of stars, Ice Spear properties makes it very hard to control. Thunder don't spread, and it has a set number of targets. The initial shock combined with the Thunderfall, I never have a problem with deadly at all.
  If you want unlimited amount of stars, then Ice Spear is probably the better way. However, the rewards for 30+ stars aren't very good.

  
  
  I wasn't considering a certain amount of stars, totally forgot about that.
  With ballooning, the gold rewards are above the value of the item prizes so I just shoot continuously until I'm out of mana.